This first part was added after the original blog posting & you will understand why after you read the expansive thread of comments at the end. Below is (as is every other posting) MY personal preference & any recommendations are just that; I am NOT trying to imply any dating "rules" or encourage game-playing, but simply that everyone evaluate their current dating behaviors/standards/M.O. & consider if possibly changing them up in some way might produce different results. Also, for those first time visitors, whether you like what you're reading here or not, I'd encourage you to read some of my other postings like the first one on why I started this blog, "Sometimes I wish I was in the motherland" or "New Year's Resolutions." Apparently, this somehow ended up being a very heated topic that people have very strong viewpoints on & irrespective of some of the hateration being thrown my way, I think the conversation that's finally happening is great. I hope you enjoy & also share your thoughts....
Ah... getting her (my) number, but not calling it... that could be the theme of my dating world in the past year plus & that of many of my girlfriends as well. Now fellas, I know you've been in this scenario on the flip side - where you talk to a girl, get her #, you actually do call her, it goes to VM & then you never hear back from her. Yes, that is awful... I'm not saying I've never done it (if you haven't read about my issue w/ being too nice, please see the end of my New Year's Resolution blog), & I really do apologize, b/c there have been a few instances (& honestly, just a few!) where b/c of a mostly awkward conversation for me (but an apparently good one for him), my inability to show disinterest & kindly get out of the interaction, and tremendously absurd guilt that I shouldn't have for someone I just met, I have given my # to a few guys that I had no intention of really communicating with. Ba-aaad SmileMoon, & I promise I am reformed and am following my resolution of not being "so darned nice."
So maybe this past year plus has simply been Karma being a you-know-what (Dear Bhagvan-ji, I think I've reaped the fruits of my actions & then some - please forgive meeee!), but I am really in awe of how many times I have really hit it off with someone (or at least so I thought) - or that a girlfriend of mine has (I'm seeing it & so is the rest of the world - it's not in her mind) - & a guy asks for our #, may even talk about meeting up/wanting to take us out sometime, etc., and then either we never hear from him at all or, we get (which I will expand upon, but most of us think is even worse) a text or a Facebook friend request some time later with possibly some random banter but nada about ever actually meeting up.... & ultimately, things never graduate beyond texting or Facebook. Unless your age ends in "-teen," I'm sorry, but to this latter behavior (staying in touch via e-only methods), I have to say (& many of my girlfriends agree) LA-AAAAAME.
First off, I really don't know very many guys who are plagued with SmileMoon "I feel bad" guilt syndrome, so I can't believe that is what's going on. From what I know about guys, when they spend time talking to us, offer to buy us a drink, continue talking to us or find us again & again when we are out somewhere, us silly girls take this as "he is interested." Some of you, we come to understand your real intentions - unfortunately sometimes after wasting too much time talking to you - when you try to get us to continue the night way past reasonable hours "just us," & then when we say that we have to go home, we are not dumb enough to have any expectation that you'll be in touch nor do we want you to. However, it's the seemingly really decent good guys that we talk to (that don't seem wasted out of their minds) when we're out & feel like we have a real (& mutual) connection with and who aren't trying to take us home with them, that we are a little bit (personally, I'm massively) in awe of.
Guys, I'd like to request you the following for the sake of me, my girlfriends & your own dating karma if you are at all worried about it. & if not your karma, maybe just your potential dating reputation. If you are not interested (& that is a-okay or omigoodness, if you have a GIRLFRIEND as I've found out after-the-fact at least a handful of times), but just think we're really fun to talk to, maybe say something like this early on in the conversation... "My girlfriend blah blah...." or... "you seem like a really fun/cool/interesting girl, I have some great guy friends I'd love for you to meet"... "see any guys you're interested in here tonight?"... Those all might be super lame or are just not viable things people would say, but I don't know, say something that makes your intentions clear. No, we do not just get super excited at the first guy we talk to who pays us some attention, & we used to think we were pretty good at reading you guys, but as of lately, not so much.
If at the end of the night, you are not interested-interested & would like to stay friends with her, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't know if any of this would fly, but maybe you could say "hey, it was great talking to you" and..."I'd love to hang out as friends sometime" or "I have friends, you have friends & we can all be friends (concept courtesy Biggie)".... or "hope to see you around again." Again, I don't know if any of that would work, but come up with something that suits you & then DO NOT get her #. I have recently averted giving a few guys my # who I knew I wasn't interested in & didn't want to lead on, and it honestly felt really good whereas before I would naively think "well maybe he's just asking as a friend & I don't want to be rude." I know, I know.... for someone who writes a dating blog, I am pretty uh-duhhh sometimes! :-P & remember guys, YOU are the ones who told us that you don't ask for our #s or make the effort if you're not interested, so please stop confusing the heck out of us.
Now, if you DO get her # & you really ARE interested and would like to see this girl again, then God Bless America, please pay attention... a text or two soon after your first meeting is a-okay (like that night, the next day) saying "hey great meeting you, will call you to plan something" (listen, this kind of verbage is not my forte, so I'm just throwing random stuff out here! :-P) Then, within the next day or two (this is not a hard & fast #, but don't let a week go by), CALL HER. If I could have underlined that for even more emphasis, I would have! Per my recent "E-communicating rules" (see previous blog posts from October), once I've given you my # & you either choose to only text/Facebook me, if I end up accepting your FB request (my rule was that if I'm actually interested in you & we start talking/dating/etc., I wouldn't accept for at least a month for the sake of actually having to get to know each other in the real world), it's because I've decided I'm not interested any more. Side note - the only time a FB contact is okay in my book is if there wasn't a chance for us to exchange info whenever we met; if you have my # are still trying to ask me out via FB, that just doesn't fly for me. Now calling her does not mean you have to have an at-length conversation (since I've heard plenty of people - guys & girls alike - tell me "they don't have time for the phone & texting is more convenient"); it can be a simple "hey, I'm on my way out to... or I just got back from & am in a rush... but I was wondering if you can get together for dinner/drinks on.... (girl: "Sure, that works").... Perfect, blah blah... see you then!"
Fellas, I cannot tell you this enough, if you are really interested & you CALL, you get TREMENDOUS bonus points from at least 95% of the females that I know. You immediately put yourself in a whole other category with a simple phone call & elevate your dating reputation (regardless of whether a relationship develops or not), because just like all of you talk about all of us/relationship/dating, when our girlfriends who saw us talking to you that night we were all out, ask "hey, did so & so call?," we tell them the truth of "nope, he texted" or "nope, never heard from him again" (which as much as it sucks, is far better than the random-never-goes-anywhere e-communicating).
So, in summary, just because she talked to you for a good part of the night, if at the end of that convo you decide that you're not interested, then don't get her # because you feel like you should. She might be confused because you sure seemed like you were & then there's always the whole "why didn't he get my #?" issue, but I promise, that's better than the alternative scenario.
Now ladies, here's some advice for you as well... what this past year of the call-that-never-happens taught me, is not to spend too much time talking to any one guy in any given night (before anyone calls me out, it's been 11 days since my New Year's Resolutions & I'm still practicing! :-D) Here is what I recommend doing when you meet a guy who catches your eye & you catch his (or at least so it seems) & I apologize if any of this sounds like game playing, but I think it's become a necessity based on the current circumstances. Say your "hi's, hello's" & basic introduction and be on your merry way. If you felt a spark, that's great, but politely say something like "hey, it was nice meeting you. One of my girlfriends is waiting for me. I'll talk to/see you later" & then walk away. If he felt a spark, he will come & find you. Even if he does & irrespective of how many times, just because of how flattered you are, how special you feel, or omg, how much you really like-like him, DO NOT end up in a mini-committed talking/dancing/hanging out-relationship with him that evening. Remember, you might never hear from this guy again, & there could have been other guys who were possibly interested in you, but who got the loud & clear "she's with THAT guy" message so they naturally didn't bother. The worst is that the guy you spent all night talking to might not call you, but another potential guy might not ever try again simply because of the interaction he saw the first time. Trust me, guys are very observant & sensitive to these things. Also, remember, guys are constantly considering their options, so why is that as girls, we feel so committed or obligated b/c someone started talking to us or even when we first start dating someone...?
& if you are someone who loves text-only communicating, then hey, that's awesome & there's no judgment here, but if you are like me & you are the anti-fan of e-communicating, -flirting, etc., then in some kind of playful/sweet/direct way (I think my new thing is going to be "hey, I think I'm getting carpal tunnel's syndrome. call me sometime!" :-P) let him know that you prefer communicating on the phone or meeting up in person. If he lets you know back that he prefers e-communicating, well, it's probably not a match, & at the end of the day, all of this just boils down to personal preference.
I know some guys & girls out there are thinking "wow, SmileMoon, thank you for making this process even more difficult," & to that, I'd like to say if making or taking a phone call is too much effort for you, then you should seriously consider how serious you actually are about meeting someone. & on a personal level, the "no time" or "more convenient" excuse simply doesn't fly in my book - I am someone who makes a whole lot of effort & then some towards the people I care about in my life, so I don't befriend or date people who are such minimalists in their efforts. Lastly, when it comes to my blog in general, these are all simply insights into my dating experiences & those of friends (including many of my guy friends) and yes, I'm making some recommendations based on them. However, I'm not delusional enough to think that anything I'm saying here is going to change how people date, but if at least one guy or girl out there gets some insight & gets it together, then that's great. What would be really great though is if those of you have thoughts on what I'm writing & want to give your perspective or experience would please post comments (you can do so anonymously)... ideally, this blog will move away from a one-sided SmileMoon conversation. On a side note, to those of you who do comment or write to me privately, I really do appreciate it.
Ok everyone, thanks for reading. Write soon ~ SmileMoon :)
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Hey Smilemoon,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your blog about guys calling/not girls. It seems that guys find it okay to call a girl a week or two after they get her number. Obviously its a huge sign to us girls that your just not that into us...or so I thought. I actually had an incident recently where a guys got my number and called me a couple of days later.. by this point i was completely uninterested because he just didn't put in the effort to show that he was interested. Well lets just say that I told him the exact reason that I didnt want him to pursue me....and he THANKED me for it. He thought that in one way or another he would be too aggressive for calling the next day or the day after.... Not at all guys!!!! He said that he was really interested in me but the reason why he didnt call was because of "Man Rule" where you dont call until....well.....a couple days too late.
So Smilemoon I definitely agree with your message, from a frustrated girls' standpoint the worst that can happen for a guy that shows that he is interested is getting voicemail...but you might also be one step closer to finding Ms. Right :)
Don't let your man rules overrule the way you feel about a girl... the theme to all of this? Try to be a little more transparant. Say what you mean and do what you say you will...easy enough right?
-Perception of the Majority of Women in Chicago
hey anonymous
ReplyDeletewho cares if he called a day or two too late in "your book." he called you! what if he was really busy with work or family or meeting other girls? (he's allowed to talk to other girls btw). you may have missed out on a great guy. its difficult to meet people as it is. you're just making it harder for yourself.
frankly i'm glad you blew him off. if that guy was my friend and he told me about what happened, i would tell him to be thankful that he didnt have to waste his time with a high maintenance (and clearly drama-filled) girl.
and then i would ask him how drunk or high he was when he got your number
Do you ladies have a clue? 90% of guys only call girls they are attracted to.
ReplyDeleteIf they don't call back, its because they woke realized they aren't attracted to you and decided to never call.
If they continue to talk to you whenever you see them maybe they are a nice guy, maybe they like small talk, maybe he just wants to be friends and calling makes him uncomfortable. There are a million+1 reasons...
The point being when a guy calls fast, predictably and regularly; it is because he is immensely attracted.
That is why smart girls that are married - knew how to tease their men when they initially met. But kept him going with out going there. If he stays, you got past the attraction trap and now have a chance to build a relationship. If he ditched and called you a tease odds are he is player. (Some girls depending on skill-set will use the alternative approach of giving it up but putting the guy in a situation where there is no way, he'd walk away from that... ushy-gushy stuff)
And the same goes for keeping a guy. Keep him attracted almost to the point of fixation till you have a meaningful emotional bond.
This is antro 101 btw. Extended mating duration in order to guarantee impregnation is the basis of relationships and marriage. Keep that guys attention with attraction and you'll win everytime.
(And in modern society there are many kinds of attraction... good cooking, you're both Steelers fans, you both have some wierd obssesion with pancakes... I dunno whatever... )
I guess it comes down to how you two met? If you met at a bar where both of you had been drinking, maybe he realized he had made a mistake after he sobered up or didnt even remember getting your number? I have also seen scenarios where the girl doesnt remember giving out her number due to alcohol. It could go either way.
ReplyDeleteNow if the guy was sober, then thats a different story. Maybe he WAS interested, until he asked around and did a little investigation to find out some skeletons in your closet, who knows?
Bottom line is..if he gets your number and doesnt call, dont take it to heart, its all a part of the process.
SmileMoon,
ReplyDeleteVery interesting post, but I believe highly flawed. Not in a bad way, but you obviously have thought about the process of dating, well specifically "south-asian dating" to a high degree, but have a sort of one sided view. It's sometimes not easy for us guys, especially after meeting a cute girl in a bar scene to simply pick up the phone and make a phone call. Hey it's maybe something you really want, but let's not play double standard. If we are in a modern world ... then why can't a girl who is interested pick up the phone and call the guy?? You may think it's too forward, etc... but in all honesty, I think its being a little biased on the female side saying, "oh yes, the MAN has to call the girl"
With your interesting idiosyncrasies, which I personally believe are eccentric, but at the same time add a very positive character to your side (i.e. not to be a facebook contact for a month kinda stuff), it shouldn't be out of character to do out of normal, or should I say, out of the social norm, things like calling the "guy"
And just another addition, with the popularity of SMS and facebook, a modern method of flirting these days include facebook messages and playful text messages. If, I am understanding what your above blog is saying, that a phone call is a necessary stepping point to later then start with SMS or facebook banter. Well then missy, you will continue to find yourself with no man by your side.
If the few readers who read my comment agree or have opinions, please post a @ reply. I'd be interested to see what the so-to-speak, "online" world thinks.
first off, to everyone who commented, thank you. finally, we're having a conversation, albeit a slightly unnecessarily nasty one from a few of you w/ the judgment passing/name calling. to those of you who expressed your viewpoint - even if it was to tell me that my perspective was flawed (which is perfectly ok b/c i'm not saying i'm the resident expert here) - in a thoughtful & adult way, an even bigger thank you to you.
ReplyDeleteas for who cares if he calls a day or two late in "my book," well that's my point right there - it's MY book & each of us have our version of it. for me (& several females that i know), the phone call shows real interest whereas the being asked out, flirted with, etc. via perpetual e-communication shows a lack of it or at least a lack of effort. it's a personal preference & we all have our own.
it seems that the 2nd anonymous poster was posting the "high maintenance" bit about anon1, & honestly, i think that's an unfair assessment based on her simply being transparent with someone about her expectations (who actually really appreciated it versus her simply not responding to his texts). omg, if everyone did that the whole world of dating would change for the better! the funny thing is that NOTHING about what she said was high maintenance or drama-ful; she simply has an opinion about how she likes to be pursued (just as you all have one about you like to pursue - apparently a vast majority of you via text).
vijay uncle (who you all know i highly value his opinion) always says that our generation plays too many games, does not communicate our expectations (& as a result, we are constantly disappointed), & so on, & i completely agree & give this girl major props for being bold enough to do so.
i also agree a lot with pdiddy's posting. my advice to girls in this post was b/c most of the time, i end up thinking that i/we don't "have a clue." i know i'm not good at playing games & am transparent, so i'm advising myself & other girls who've been in similar situations to just manage their time a bit better when they are out. guys are perpetually playing their options (& specifically in chicago, they have many), so we should not be naive enough to think that b/c someone is talking to us (who we deem is not wasted), saying how great we are, that we should hang out, etc., that we shouldn't perceive that to be authentic interest-interest until whatever transpires the following week or so.
i personally have no problem with the "he wasn't that into me" & chose not to call scenario; it's black & white (remember, i don't "do gray") & crystal clear. my only issue was that if he was just laying on the "he IS really into me" super thick so he could possibly get some, it's just unfortunate that guys who are well past their undergrad years are still out for just one thing.
sorry, you guys posted so much great stuff that you know i couldn't not reply to it all! :-P
ReplyDeletenow on to anon4 & my interesting but highly flawed post :) that is not me making fun at all; i really appreciate your perspective. i completely understand that it's not easy to make that call, but if you are interested, & you text initially & we respond/e-flirt/whatever back to you, then at that point, i hope that most guys would feel like they are getting the continued "green light" (once from that night & now again, with her responding) & that they would then feel comfie calling (again, like i said - there is just something completely different about being asked out to dinner via text via on the phone for most of us girls).
as for the modern world, i've said it before, but there are a lot of things that i'm perfectly fine with saying "bump feminism & the modern world" about. in the modern world, yes, a girl could ask a guy out, pursue him, pay for the first date, & do all of that, but i think it would shift the dating-relationship balance in such a negative way that (i think) more than anyone, the guys would be more unpleasantly thrown than anyone. every guy i know has told me, that he HAS to be the one doing the chasing or it just doesn't work. & to me, that makes sense & it's how it's played out in almost every successful relationship i know.
& yes, i def do have some idiosyncrasies (namely, writing a blog at all) & then some when it comes to my "rules" like the Facebook rule. you said it in a very complimentary way, but i can't help but reiterate the "why" behind that "rule"... i don't want to connect to the guy i'm interested in the same way i'm "connected" to the random guy who sat behind me in homeroom in the 7th grade & added me as his friend on FB. i want "new potential guy" to have to ask me questions about his life, friends, travels, etc. & that i have to do the same. sure, it might be outside the norm of what most people do, but it works for me.
has it worked yet? no, of course not, but neither has 99% of what everyone else is doing. we're all in the single boat together & we all need to evaluate & constantly re-evaluate what we are doing & how effective it is.
& i'm all for e-flirting (i love it!) after a real more-than-first-time meeting connection has been established. people act & speak differently via the written form (ahem, like me in this blog) than they do in person, so i'd like to get to know someone's real in-person self via the phone & then quickly in person, versus perpetual e-communication which is where most things stand nowadays.
lastly, for the person who mentioned "skeletons in someone's closet," all i can say is that if i'm interested in a guy, i don't go asking for my whole group's opinions or the scoop on said guy. i want to go into the getting-to-know-someone process with a blank slate & not the opinions or supposed "scoop" (that is often so wildly skewed) on an individual. as for real "skeletons," everyone has a past, no one is perfect & people do change/evolve, but yet we are desi & we are forever putting stigmas on people for everything & hold other people to a standard that we don't even hold for ourselves.
I agree with the latest anonymous post, your initial blog was extremly one-sided. As for name calling, it is not necesarry. If you are going to call guys LAME and a bunch of 7th graders, your obviously going to piss someone off.
ReplyDeleteI am the least experienced guy – I have dated least number of times than anyone of you.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to courtship and marriage you should always keep in mind that you are playing this game with no rules no referees. So everyone behaves based on what he or she thinks is right or what they feel comfortable with.
Are you in dating mode or marriage mode? To me dating is like fast food conveniently available, many locations to serve you and you can be absolutely picky about where you go because if you do not like the one outfit the competition is not too far. If Taco Bell takes too long to serve you walk out and go to Taco Cabana! It is their job to meet our expectation – after all they are plenty to choose from. All of my comments are applicable if you are in marriage mode and seriously looking for the co parent of your future children.
Attraction is not a stable commodity. As a matter of fact in long term relationship the attraction may range from “I can not live without you to I can not stand you” with the person being the same. So if he is going to call you – you are better off that he calls when the attraction level is high rather than he calls you out of a deadline hanging on his head even if the attraction level at that point is not high.
One may even argue that the fact that after few days he did call and if he was able to convey his interest in you the message is more likely to be thought out message than one out of what girl expects out of me.
Only person who you control is you. So all of you basically need to address every issue with simple question – knowing what I know so far what can I do to improve the communication with the prospect I meet and do not let my emotions or expectation become so counter productive that I let a good one go? As it is evident from such discussion one gender is talking in Chinese and the other is interpreting in Telugu!
Discussion such as this is very helpful. While it is not meant to develop any specific consensus it does give everyone a glimpse as to how others feel in a given situation. What we can all agree is that everyone can have their own take on it. Therefore making any conclusion based on he called me a week later my be erroneous.
What is the major difference between those who are happily married versus those who are making serious attempts and not finding it? It is not the looks or education, the financial stability or curb appeal. It is ability to ignore the dislikes as annoyance rather than a deal breaker and build the likes into a common purpose rather than open another front.
Don’t escalate – if he was a good guy 5 days ago he is same guy five days later – the fact that he did not meet your early call back criteria is something to keep in the back of your mind but not to act on it.
Continued
VJ Uncle... I think everything you say is pretty much on point. But I feel like a lot of the unsuccessful ladies don't have the tool-kit to deal with the 'douche-bag' guys. Guys who are shopping, not compromising, lack maturity etc... I think identifying and cultivating the skills required to detect and disarm the 'douche-bag' is pretty important. Because 75% of the men they meet will be part of the 'douche-bag' group.
ReplyDeleteIn my city (Chicago) - I see an endless collection of girls who understand every point made by you but don't know how to cultivate some mystery, magic and attraction.
Of the ladies I know who were able to successfully get married. Obviously those ladies and their partners, have thick-skin, common goals, communicate well and are willing to work hard putting something together. But these ladies also knew how to court a guy, keep him focused and occupied.
I think your story on how when you met your wife - she told you that she was an amazing cook is very pertinent. She knew it was important short-term as part of the attraction. But pretty-irrelevant in the longer term. Most of these girls I see are not doing this.
To my friends who are ladies. I strongly advocating man-handling the 'douche-bag' guys as an effective strategy to finding the right guy. Evaluate the guy materially - if he fits the bill - don't be scared to engage him and push him back smartly. I've seen hundreds of these horrible guys fall apart when a women can present the right combination of mystery, magic and attraction.
(Basically women should have strategic advice. And detailed tatical directions that addresses their existing lifestyle situation.)
My comments continued ....
ReplyDeleteSmilemoon, there is nothing wrong in receiving information that may be relevant – may be he is married three times before. You don’t have to go out and seek the information but the way the gossip machine works it is possible that you get information. I get a lot of information about so many of you every day. But you are right, you need to keep your mind open and figure out for yourself.
Road to relationship is a bumpy road with lots of detours or U turns – it is the persistence and maturity of both sides that is the key to success. The problem lies with those who once they meet a prospect get in the romantic notion they can’t wait to validate their feeling by getting that message they are hoping for. I caution you against it. “I met an interesting guy last night” needs to remain just that. Even if he sends you a flirty message next morning to me does not mean much. If is a con artist he is likely to do everything right.
Flirting is a wonderful thing. It gives you that adrenaline rush some thing to talk about (brag about) with your friends etc. But in the long and treacherous journey to marriage it should not be given too much importance.
I call you guys ‘youth’ (from where I stand everyone seems young!) but ‘mature youth.’ I implore you to learn to act mature. Mature people do not escalate. They do not make a quick and snap judgment. Specially anonymous (the first commenter) if all it takes to disqualify is the fact that the guy was 48 hours too late to call you – in my opinion you have a lot to learn. If I were advising the guy I would caution him. Because if you are so rigid in your criteria what other major problems would he face should he decide to marry you?
The relationship requires to imperfect people with diverse background to negotiate the long and hard road to a common purpose and ability to deal with each others imperfections without being defeated or bitter.
Good luck to all of you. I used to be jealous that I never got to enjoy the company of lots of females and experience the fun that goes with it, but now I am thankful that I did not have to meet all the expectations of the new and empowered Desi gals!!
PDiddy,
ReplyDeleteThe irony is that most of these ladies are far too smart to know how to spot and deal with a ‘douche-bag.’ The problem is not really the lack of know how. As a matter of fact most of these ladies can give a lecture or write a book on how to do it.
The problem is the sense of desperation that sets in. There are far more Desi gals looking for serious relationship than eligible Desi guys. This puts them in a disadvantageous position. There kicks in wishful thinking and higher expectation when they run into someone even semi decent. Once the guy sense desperation suddenly the girl loses her magic and mystery.
As a matter of fact if there was someway to put Desi men in a situation where for every girl there are two guys, suddenly the guys would understand what gals must go through.
I do give them individualized strategic advice. For the most part it boils down to helping her develop enough self-esteem to empower her to do what she may already know.
So, what is the key to this Majic, mystery and attraction? What are those qualities and traits?
ReplyDeletefirst off, wow, i am shocked at what a chord this particular blog has struck & i am loving all the comments (i know now that i said that, i'm sure they will stop :-P)
ReplyDeletevijay uncle, you & our parents are definitely lucky that you didn't have to experience any of this b/c this is NOT fun - due too many years of dating "experiences" EVERYONE has very strong opinions, expectations, etc. relationships of the past revolved around roles & dharmic duties (husband = provider for family & wife = caregiver to family); things were much simpler then. now, as everyone can see by the above, a simple thing like a text vs. a phone call can make the process so convoluted.
vj uncle, you also know that i heart you to pieces, but your comments made it seem (to me) like desi girls have become or are so rigid/ empowered with possibly out-of-this world expectations & that it is that reason we are single. in my personal book, i do not want to have extended text conversations - that is not the way i can get to know someone (friend or potential relationship) & if after a certain time frame (for me, after some texting back & forth), if the person can't be so compelled to make the effort, it's b/c he's "just not that into me" & that is OKAY. i don't think that's an out-of-this world expectation & if it is, that's just sad (& you all will be massively annoyed at me when i talk about the "gem" guys that i know)
the thing is that almost EVERYONE i know is looking for the same thing, but none of us - guys & girls alike - for so many reasons, are able to get it together. & believe me, it's far from simply b/c the girls have expectations & again, a phone call to ask for a date versus one via text is far from high in my book. i think for most of us, what we really value & the kind of partners we're even capable of being is what's really messed up nowadays.
& the same goes for p.diddy who keeps speaking of his married friends. i'm not sure if we roll in the same group or not, but regardless, in my expansive group of maybe 100 people, i know 2 married couples - one that got married several years ago (when i think the dynamics of dating were even different then & from what i heard about their story, it didn't go down like how you are saying) & then one other couple that recently got married (& from what i know of their story, it, too, did not go down that way). as far as i know, these girls were not manipulative, strategic in their expression of "magic" or mystery or did anything blatant other than be themselves when it came to attraction. i've heard one of them say that she was just as the right time & place & happened to meet the right kind of guy. (if any marrieds would comment on this, i'm sure we'd all love to hear from you on this).
i do think you are completely right that our d-bag radar is whacked out & we end up wasting a lot of time talking to the wrong guys. as a guy who i imagine has a lot of guy friends, i think what you said about 75% of the guys being non-quality is a big deal. if that's true, that leaves 25% of the decent guys for the rest of us. so sad...
FYI to all the Chicago ladies. All my friends here who have gotten married, engaged and in serious relationships have met someone out of town in various ways. So, maybe try the out of towners pool. Chicago men are non commital.
ReplyDeletesorry p.d., i have more... now as for the story w/ vijay uncle's wife, are you saying that we should lie? personally, i enjoy cooking only when i have someone to cook/eat with, but should i pretend that i'm martha stewart-ish for the sake of being more attractive to a potential guy? should a guy that hates bollywood movies feign interest in them for the sake of scoring points with me? b/c no unlove to auntie, but she said the right things that uncle wanted to hear & in the long-term it all worked out that they were the right partners for each other. i don't think anyone would or should advocate being disingenuous or unauthentic to snag someone.
ReplyDeleteyou are very right though about women needing strategic advice... from your advice on recognizing the d-bags & mine on not spending too much time talking to any one person, i hope that women (as early in their life as possible) start learning these things.
hmm... i just saw vijay uncle's recent post... yes, there are far more desi girls looking & "ready" than desi guys & this will always be the case. i just think it is so unfortunate that if we simply reciprocate interest (by being nice & engaging in a conversation) that somehow we are perceived as "desperate" & all this supposed magic & mystery is gone.
if that's the case, it almost sounds like our only option is to be near-b!tchy, aloof & uninterested to have more "mystery," allure & appeal. ladies, vj uncle is right though & whether it's right or wrong, a good majority of guys operate this way - far too many guys are simply approaching us & talking us to see if we'd be interested at all & some to see how far they can get with us. once we express any interest back, a lot of them are simply in "Ne-eeext!" mode. So, to this, I have to say that ladies, just be mindful of your time & if the guy seems like the playerish, saying all the right things-type, definitely keep your guard up.
I think everyone made valid points here. I have to concede that VJ Uncle is correct that too many girls come off as desparate and that really kills it. And I also just learned why my expectation is always so dramatically off from the girls I meet.
ReplyDeleteSmilemoon fix your d-bag radar. Its not that complicated. D-bags will try to maximize the usage of time leveraging facebook, texts, emotional tricks... If the guy isn't giving you material time as part of his pursuit, friend-zone him immediately and tell him and tell his friends publically. "Oh we are just friends - I don't see him that way..."
And if possible engage in conversations with multiple guys at once. Open the floor if you are in a public setting. People roll in crews in Chicago - talk to his friend too even if you don't like him at all.
And the pool of people getting married that you are looking at, really are the leftovers. The majority of my friends that are married met when they were younger in undergrad, their first job, maybe family friends... The subset that does happy hour at the most 'scene' place and hits Social 25 every Saturday after 3 am is very different from the people I'm referencing in terms of demographics. But the underlying principles are the same.
The girls I've chased the most are the girls that have other guys chasing them. Hands down no questions. If a girl is totally single - a guy is likely to sit on the option. This is the mystery, magic etc... component...
And I'm not advocating lying that is unethical. I am advocating representing yourself intelligently. e.g. If a guy ask you if you're single - you don't need to respond with, "Yeah I'm really totally single...". You don't know how many times in this city you hear something like that. How about saying, "I'm looking for something serious and keeping my options open" and make sure you smirk a bit...
And let me defend Chicago men a bit. We are the most committal of any big city in this country. You really want your universe rocked, date guys in New York City - you may never recover.
And smilemoon don't be jaded. Your selling yourself short if your skeptical and bottled up. What I'm saying is bring your A-game and beat the d-bag and his own d-baggery. Refer to VJ Uncle's point on self-esteem and self-respect.
P.Diddy, I have a feeling you know me & reasonably well; however, you are majorly wrong-o on the jaded part - actually, the whole last paragraph in its implication towards me (skeptical & bottled up? Maybe you haven't met me & perhaps you haven't noticed that I write a blog...). On the contrary, I'm hopeful & idealistic & hence, I'm writing this blog b/c I believe that we all have the capacity to learn from our experiences (& those of others) & evolve. We also have the capacity to be proactive & take steps that move us closer to achieving our personal goals. For example, my social scene was on automatic replay every single week for the past 6 months, & I'm making a conscious effort to change that. Does that mean you'll never see at MNB or Social 25? Nope, but definitely not as much. Also, the way I responded to guys (giving them too much time) was also on automatic repeat probably for the entirety of SmileMoon's existence of being "too nice", & that's also something I understand (on my own & well before any of this conversation) & will be changing.
ReplyDeleteDoing the above does not make me jaded, skeptical or bottled up; it makes me wise enough to know that only a very unwise person does the same thing over & over again expecting different results.
Lastly, I think saying that Chicago guys are the most committal in any big city is really relative & far from any kind of hard fact. I have been to & lived in enough major cities & I've never been more in awe of the fact that Chicago guys have unlimited options in this massive desi community & yet no one can seem to get it together. I have more coupled & married friends in NY/NJ (& not just those who met in undergrad but who met well after & are continuing to meet each other) & actually all over the East Coast, than I do here.
Smilemoon - I don't know anything specific bout you. I was referring to the specific comment about minding your time and keeping you guard up. I think its really bad advice from a decent guy's perspective. It can really confuse us.
ReplyDeleteI went to dinner recently with a very nice woman. She had her guard up which as a guy seemed like she was dull, emotionally available and blatantly not interested. I left right after dinner and didn't think about it twice. Until I realized maybe she had her guard up and I tried to address my mistake. Unfortunately most guys even the real good ones can get confused very quickly.
Stay proactive and pursue the options you want. I would advise to not worry about what 'that guy' will do to you and focus on what you're going to do to him.
About Chicago versus NYC. To each their own. Though I'm comparing river north + gold coast to manhattan (anything south of midtown). And I know 100s of guys in both scenes and I know what they are doing and thinking. But I'll leave it at that.
Well I read the blog for the very first time and I am very much disappointed. A woman who is 30-years old is behaving as if she is in her teens. Can we please "grow up"? There are no rules or games when you meet someone and are interested in the person, unless, of course your ultimate goal is to get in bed. Quite frankly we live in world today where it is only flesh that matters when we say we are interested, interested from what perspective? In order for two human beings to spend this beautiful life happily, personality plays lot more importance. And if you ever give personality importance, then there are no games or rules, it is purely based on good soul searching, as opposed to hot looking body. Your blog is geared more towards sexually oriented human beings who are only looking to get laid, but not appreciate or admire our Eastern values. The blogger who wrote a guy called after two days is the most egoist person I have come across. Women like her who are so self centered makes guys look bad or turn them into some thing else. Did she even think about a minute that he might have had some family emergency, professional crisis, etc. Nope. Nada. Nothing. It was only about me and me and me. Good for the dude before he was burnt. When it comes to rights women jump up and down and say they are equal to men or feminist organization will say they are far superior but when it comes to dating they want guys to make the first move, call them first, ask them out first, pay for the drinks, dinner, etc. What a double standard?
ReplyDeleteSorry have to rush but could write endlessly on this topic, unfortunately to differing views.
Hi most-recent Anonymous, I'm not here to please everybody & have no expectation that I would; reading is voluntary & so is whether you choose never to read again. Regardless, I appreciate your sentiments (I think it's funny b/c Indian girls are always accused of being "bitter/jaded" but it seems like quite a few desi guys have a whole lot of angst), because whether I agree with your opinion of my blog or not (I don't), the goal of my blog (to start a conversation around this whole convoluted process of "finding the one") is happening. & although you are simply an anonymous no one in my book & I certainly don't need to explain myself or my blog to you, I will clarify some things for you...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you read other parts of my blog - including my first few posts about why I started the blog in the first place or the post about my New Years Resolutions.
I'm not quite sure what part of my blog (perhaps you were reading another blog...?) you interpreted to be "geared more towards sexually oriented human beings who are only looking to get laid, but not appreciate or admire our Eastern values" (& perhaps you didn't read my blog about "Sometimes I wish I was in the motherland"), but that's the beauty of interpretation - to each their own. However, at the end of the day, you do not know me nor do you know my values or those of other people who are commenting. Frankly (& this might just be my interpretation), but I think it's quite rude of you to be so judgmental, condescending, assumptive & generalistic - is that your "personality???"
At the end of the day, we're all a product of our experiences & the phone vs. text thing is one of mine. I am far from being a writer, but if I was one, I'd be thrilled that something as simple as that one little step in the dating process got so many people reading & riled up.
Again, it sounds like you only read my most recent post & not other posts in my blog, because I for one have never "jumped up & down" saying that men are equal to women, & although I think in the professional world, men & women should be equal, I certainly don't have that expectation or desire in relationships.
You sound like a very idealistic person, & I'm one myself, but no matter how idealistic we are, we have to participate in the world as it is & that includes the current process of dating here in America & with our generation. We would all prefer zero games & no rules, but that's not the reality we live in.
Anyway, thank you for writing & I do hope to hear from you again.
Smilemoon, I think your readers are getting confused as to what they are reading...people, this is a blog, not a message board. A blog supposed to be ideas and thoughts of an indivdual and then comment on it (briefly). This has obviously turned into a message board (maybe this is what you meant to start in the first place)?
ReplyDeleteThanks for writing & I definitely hear what you're saying. Honestly though, I had & have zero expectations on what this blog is supposed to be like, & I never even read a blog before starting this one. People - including myself - have a lot to say, & as long as some people have the patience to read it all, it works for me. & As far as I see it, it's just more content for future blog postings :)
ReplyDeletePdiddy, What are your thoughts and experiences of the girls in Chicago compared to other cities? I am finding that the 30-something crowd puts emmense of pressure on "meeting the one" and isnt as relaxed as the crowd from my home city. Most of my female friends in Chicago continue to tell me their laundry list of what they are looking for AND are very upfront in stating it with their friends (age, height, staus, education, whether he like bollywood movies or not?). What ever happened to keeping it general and not be so specific? Maybe there can be a connection without this enormous list of likes and dislikes.
ReplyDeleteInteresting read. I am married and in my 30s and thought I would offer a different perspective. I think the older we are when we meet our mate, the greater expectations we have of who they ‘should be’ – in part because we ourselves have had so much time to grow and learn. This, however, proves to be a stumbling block for a lot of my girlfriends. In their quest for the perfect mate, they place too much importance on the ‘unimportant’ (texts vs phone calls, 1 day wait vs 3 day wait, overthinking simple things, etc) & in the process may lose a wonderful potential mate. Yes, in the short term these are things which may not be your ideal approach to starting a relationship, but nobody’s perfect and its irrelevant long term anyway. If you end up married 3 years later, what difference does it make whether he texted you or called you first?
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous who posted a reply on January 14, 2010 9:29 AM – the one thing I have learned with experience, friend’s stories, movies, books etc... is that there is no family emergency, professional crisis or anything that will keep a man away from a woman if he is really interested.
ReplyDeleteToo often women make excuses for men and their poor behaviour. If he is “just not that into you” then move on. Many times you were “just not that into him” (whoever he was) now it’s your turn.
Smilemoon – although I don’t agree with making excuses for men I must say that at your age you should not be going through half the things you are going through. Now please don’t take this harshly. I have met you many times before and think that you are a lovely woman. I am in my 20’s and have yet to have a guy not call me after I gave him my number. The problems you are experiencing in my opinion has everything to do with the way you are presenting yourself with men. I don’t know you well enough to judge what you are doing wrong or right, but something has got to change.
Maybe take a break from dating (a 2 month break or so..) and really think about what you want and what is important????
It seems as though women from Chicago have these superficial standards. If a guy is 5’7 for instance (a little shorter than your ideal man) please give him a chance. If he earns less than $150k it does not make him a looser.
I know meeting your potential mate is not easy. But presenting yourself with confidence...true confidence will make all the difference.
I would like to add my perspective to this interesting blog. I am 33 year old male living in Chicago for the last 2 and half years. during this time, I have dated a number of girls in this city. I am still friends with all of them and they are still a part of my life in some way or another. I would like to say that I have given the same respectful treatment to each and every girl I went out with. For example, once I get a girls number, I call her back and set up a time to meet. The number of days does not really matter here, so as long as its not 2 weeks later. So consistency is the key here.
ReplyDeleteYes, there have been cases where I did facebook a girl, BUT she responded!(everytime). In a fast paced city and living a fast paced life, we dont always have right opportunity to get a girls number. And sometimes the girl actually feel awkward giving it out, in front of friends, co-workers, etc. FB is a tool, so I use it!! It has worked out very well for me. FB msgs are an excellent idea so as long as it eventually leads to phone conversation and later a date..etc. One thing I would like to add, guys, please dont abuse the FB as an easy way to getting in contact with the girl you have had little or no communication with. Most girls are turned off by this. If you have met the girl, talked to her (even for 5 min), then it is perfectly ok for FB her.
IMO, In the world of dating there ARE rules, but only the ethical and moral ones, right? Be polite, use common sense, act like a gentleman, treat her like a lady, etc. Other than that, its up to you to figure out what works and what doesnt. Also, this is very important, its so simple yet often times we forget..always make her laugh..this is the easiest way to break the ice, and get comfortable. I have saved many bad dates by just making the girl laugh.
As for Pdiddy, i agree with you about the process of disarming the DB. But you are too logical about this..fending off a DB isnt hard, but dont be a brat about it either. Girls, why waste time with a DB when you could be spending your meeting the real men..too often these women are actually attracted to the DB. Ofcouse she is, hes the only one hitting on you. If you want to find a real guy, look in the background, there are plenty of men out there. BTW, is there a female version of a DB? HAHA JK..
To Anonymous who posted on January 14, 2010 8:18 PM, thanks for writing & you sound quite lovely as well.
ReplyDeleteNow as for Chi-Guy, thank you for your thoughtful & totally on point post. I feel like (& please correct me if I'm wrong) that what you are saying about treating girls boils down for you & should for most (guys & girls alike), is the Golden Rule (no one needs me to say it but I will :-P): DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE TO YOU. I mean, who doesn't like to laugh or be treated well? It's all pretty basic stuff!
& YES, it really is about consistency at the end of the day & not necessarily the mode of communication. We all have our preferences though when it comes to that, & I don't think that's a bad thing; I do think though that in a pleasant way & when a real connection has been made, those things can & should be communicated.
& honestly, I don't have a strict timeline on when someone should reach out to me (like "Day 2 & Bump You!;" however, I have definitely experienced when a guy is majorly into me & honestly, he doesn't let a lot of time go by, b/c all that time is time that someone else could be making the move. Whether it's me or someone else, I've seen guys get very frazzled at that possibility & when they ARE that into you, they try to avoid you forgetting about them at all costs.
& I am not upset at that guy who doesn't get in touch, b/c ultimately he's "just not that into me;" my big thing in my original blog posting was why lay on the interest so thick in the first place...? I also definitely don't write off the guy who asks me out via text or Facebook, but I hope it's clear to everyone that I, SmileMoon, just personally can't e-communicate with someone for an extended period of time.
& sigh... you are also (so sadly) very right about us girls being attracted to the DBs. From our teenage years until our mid-20's we were definitely plagued with this problem & now even though we're supposedly wiser, the DB guys still continue to distract us. We know we don't want them, but yet we often end up talking to them thinking "well, just ma-aaaaybe...." :-P
Anywho, I'm optimistic that we will all get it together eventually & in the meantime, thanks again to everyone for comments.
p.s. - I LOVE that married people are reading & your insight is beyond appreciated. I'm going to save elaborating though (since I've done so darned much of it) until a new blog posting on the topic of our "standards."
ReplyDeleteSmile Moon
ReplyDelete-- anon 4 here. Interesting reply. thanks. A quote from your blog states
"Then, within the next day or two (this is not a hard & fast #, but don't let a week go by), CALL HER. If I could have underlined that for even more emphasis, I would have! Per my recent "E-communicating rules"
Maybe you were a little heated when posting your advise to the world but its pretty clear ... and I feel that if someone were to begin e-flirting with you after meeting you, you would give off a very stand-off impression that might lead to a bad impression, and something a guy will easily be turned off and look the other way. I've seen it, experienced it, and personally, think its a huge negative. I do feel if someone were to call you in 1-2 days and you honestly had an interest in the guy you would fall head over heals and put your full on emotion into it. I don't know, its just the way it seems in your tone and way you write the blog. Not a good idea honey.
my rule about dating. It should be all natural. Nothing should feel like rules or restrictions. The second a girl mentions "It'll take me a month to open up to you, per my rules" I'll pack up my bags, or I'll go and pick myself up to somewhere else. That is not natural. I've been in several relationships, one or two that I was serious about marrying but then of course, Indian parents are the worst on this planet about being open minded. I'll just leave it at that.
I do bid you good luck to your ventures, but for honest to goodness, lay off the rules. Try that once, and see where it takes you.
P.s. to the anon who posted Chicago guys are noncommittal. Hahaha, that's a farse. Try out of towners??? Please, try shadi.com, thanks. Sorry that ticked a nerve. Done.
anon 4 honey, hi again. you forgot the "Now, if you DO get her # & you really ARE interested..." part before that quote. i assure you that i did not write my original blog when i was heated & i'm still not heated now. i am also not saying "psych, just kidding!" to what i wrote; we can all try something different in an effort to get different results & that is still my recommendation to guys when they are really interested. it's simply something to try. if you got a good vibe that first night & she was sending you what you felt were clear signals, i still recommend a call when you have her # & IF you are REALLY interested. if you speak with her, that's awesome & if you never hear from her again, things at least become crystal clear.
ReplyDeletei think people are confusing me for anon1, but i never said that i have a cut off after a certain # of days (yes, i did make a recommendation on when i think guys should call - see above paragraph), & after this comment, i will stop re-explaining (i promise) & let the convo continue "amongst yourselves" (love that SNL sketch! :-P), but again (& again & again) i do NOT like to get to know people via text, BBM or Facebook.
i don't mind an initial text flirt or two (no, two is not a "cut-off" - it's an expression); i e-flirt fight back, but if that's all that the guy continues, i will lose interest. & you are absolutely right, if a guy that i was really interested in (like the last guy i seriously dated) called me the next day or two, i would be thrilled. fall head over heels? sorry, but one phone call is not all it takes for that.
as for rules & laying off of them, i'm not sure which rules of mine you are talking about. the FB one...? the one about not wanting to be a guy's facebook friend for a certain time frame (however long it takes to get to know each other "naturally")? that rule? i'm sorry, but if any guy in his 30's cares that he is not my FB friend after meeting me, i'm concerned right there. & i'm even more sorry that i prefer to ask a person where they went to school, have they recently traveled, fave books/movies versus reading everything about them in 10 minutes, b/c i'm apparently one of the few people who prefers conversations that begin in "so tell me about" rather than "i read that..."
anyway, a lot of people who do not know me are judging me (which was to be expected & i'm a-okay with it), & all the unlove, angst, blaming/generalizing of the opposite sex, & my personal fave, "something is wrong with you smilemoon," has honestly been really entertaining. for those of you know me personally or who've followed my blog & read more than this last post (although i still don't understand what i said that made such a stir :-P), you know that i am not the bitter, jaded, "guys suck" or "everyone who is still single has issues" type. this is my space to introspect & share various experiences (mine & others) & as long as the conversation continues (not this one, b/c i think it's reached a necessary end), i'll take as much hateration as you can throw my way as i continue to blog.
again, thanks everyone for writing & also for all the good luck wishes :)
I know Smiling moon and she is a fabulous woman. She is just trying to document the indian dating experience from her perspective. If someone has issues they should not project it onto anyone here. Be kind and respectful people!
ReplyDeleteI assume from the long posts that you neither have a job nor gym membership. This probably explains why noone has commited to you. Tick tock... there goes the marriage clock.
ReplyDeleteI want to throw in my 2 cents w/ the other person who knows SmileMoon. Im a white male who has known her since high school. I sometimes read her blog bc SM always cracks me up and we all have dating issues so can relate. For the f'd up A-HOLE right above (sorry SM I don't want to play nice) you must have never met SM bc I saw her at our 10 yr reunion and she seems to just get hotter with age. Her being single is her choice because she apparently has a whole lot of douches who she is too good for as options. Smile Moon, when you are ready to go for the right side - the WHITE side - just come back to Jersey and I'll get u snatched up in a second!
ReplyDeleteps - WTF, 30 isn't old u morons!!
If my thoughts have already been expressed by someone above, I apologize cause they are just so long, I didn't have time to read them all. I barely got through the long post.
ReplyDeleteIf I don't call a guy back, that means I am not interested enough in the guy to call him back. I assume it works the same way with the guys. Fine by me since I do the same.
I don't mind if a guy calls me 2 weeks later cause that means he has a life. If I fail to call within a few days, that means I have a life and have been preoccupied with other matters. Now, if this frequency of communication is not sufficient for you, then it is an issue that you should take up with the guy (which you are doing via this recent blog post).
I think texting and email is fine as well. It's a form of communication and all that matters is your interaction with each other in person.
If you are waiting for the guy to call, my suggestion is take up a hobby. Perhaps read a book or take up stamp collecting.
I'm surprised at the amount of animosity I've read on this page! Despite the fact that I have had a great time reading certain comments and taking mental notes, some of you have been pretty insightful. I’m just surprised at the amount of negative feedback. I know this has been mentioned before but this is a blog, if Smile moon is anything like me (sorry if you’re not) she uses her blog to keep track of thoughts/ideas/feelings/happenings; this means that things sometimes sound like we're bitter/jaded...but it's really just our honest internal reaction to our reality. Anyone who reads my blog would be surprised at how bitter and scared I can sound at times, especially when it’s someone who knows me. But the reality is I use my blog almost as my journal/log and as a way to share feelings with someone who possibly is in a similar situation, so I take it to be my moment to let it ALL out! It’s one thing to be on the other side of the story, but there’s no need to be harsh when sharing your side.
ReplyDeleteBack to the topic at hand: As someone in a long time relationship my feelings about the situations are pretty close to what our married responder said…if he’s the right guy, who cares when he called?! But in a lot of ways I do remember what it’s like to be in the dating world, and on the off chance I’m back in it if this doesn’t work out (but I hope it does!) I’m sure I’m going to be feeling a lot of the things Smile Moon and her single female friends are feeling! I mean e-only communication is pretty LAME, especially once you’ve somewhat established that you’re interested in one another. The other thing I would like to stress is a lot of girls really just want a guy strong enough to pursue them, so guys if a girl actually gets up the guts to show you she wants you to…I suggest that you should!
So I guess keep your negativity to a minimum and Just be clear so we ladies know what it is we’re doing wrong from a guys’ perspective! Your resolutions sound GREAT smile moon and I hope they work out for you :o)
without definition, thank you for reading & for your thoughtful message; it's nice to know that someone who is in a relationship can still relate to & appreciate the sentiments of singles. i'd really love to read your blog, so if you can pass along the link (my e-mail is smilemoonblog@gmail.com), that'd be great.
ReplyDeleteIf you call, then it shows that you have more confidence than if you email or txt.
ReplyDeleteSmilemoon, I have a question for you...why do girls give out there numbers and then don't call back if left a message? If it was to get rid of the guy, then girls should say they're are not interested or something to that effect where the guy know's she's not interested so he can't expect a call back.
If she changes her mind or flakes out then she most likely will remain single.
Great post and great comments... all ringing true. I do agree with the "not just texting" rule - we're in an e-age, so yes, FB and texting are part of the communication repertoire... but seriously, can they be the only ones if you're really getting to know the other person? Don't you want to hear their voice, or see them when you talk to them? Heck, consider your at-work scenarios (since most people these days are more careful about their work communications than personal ones) - in spite of the technology and global nature of all businesses, hasn't it always been easier to work with people you've met and talked to at some point? How many times have misunderstandings resulted from incorrectly interpreted emails, that could have been avoided if you just picked up the phone to call that sensitive colleague? I think it's the same in dating relationships IMHO... voice and vision just add the added dimensions to texted/emailed thoughts. Just my 2 cents...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't recommend brushing a guy off and telling him you would see him later just so you're not investing too much time in one guy. If you're having a good conversation, you should continue having that conversation unless you're really needed by your friend. Depending on that guy's personality he might just not approach you again after the brush off. He might take that brush off as a sign that you're not interested in him.
ReplyDeleteI just want to say that some of the negative feedback on here seems to be out of pure ignorance and classic Indian judgment. Any female that has been in Smilemoon's shoes can relate and she has been brave enough to put herself on the line to encourage this discussion that is so desperately needed in our community. It's just classic how people interpret her blog in whatever way that's already in line with their predetermined point of view. I'm shocked at the "something is wrong with you Smilemoon" and similar hating comments. Yet, it's nice for this to be brought out into the light so people can learn what type of feedback we get daily as unmarried Indian females in our community despite our struggles to marry intelligently in these dysfunctional times. Smilemoon, you've shown a lot of character in managing this feedback and I'm happy to see you standing tall for so many of us who feel the same.
ReplyDeletehi everyone who has posted since the last time i posted on this blog, sorry i've been MIA! the most recent blog post ("the comment that got its own blog") was a little intense, so i'm just getting to some comments on other postings.
ReplyDeletefirst off, to poster 1:25 AM, i think both scenarios - a guy getting a girl's # & never calling as well as a girl giving her # & not returning the call - are unfortunate behaviors. as i admitted though, i've definitely done exactly what you described, & my reasoning (albeit a bad one) was GUILT. i mean, if i were wildly hitting it off with a guy & i gave my #, i WOULD call back, but if i talked to a guy for a little bit, was being my usual nice & pleasant self, if a guy i wasn't interested-interested in asked for my #, i would still give it to him b/c i didn't want to be "mean/rude." i also didn't want to be uber-shady & give a wrong #.
i know my having done that is completely comparable to the behavior of guys that i talked about, & i can tell you that i have personally evolved in this area. although it might be lame (& might make the guy feel bad/annoyed), if a guy asks for my # & i KNOW i'm not interested in "that way," i will say something like "hey, sure i would love to hang out as friends sometimes" & if i feel like being more explicit, i'll preface that by saying "i think you're great, & feel free to hate me if i'm being presumtpuous, but... " or something along those lines. i still say it just as sweetly & mean the friendship part of it. i've seen it take people aback, but i am now actually friends with the few people i've been in that situation with. if anyone else has recommendations on what they do in that situation, it'd be interesting to hear.
so far this year, i have been more up front & less riddled with guilt than i have before in my life & this is no exaggeration - it's been LIBERATING. :)
7:03, you know that I 100% agree with you. What I was trying to say in my blog was that I can't have long "conversations" (if they can be called that) via text, e-mail or FB in general but ESPECIALLY with someone in the same city as me. & when i talk about a guy picking up the phone & calling, again, it's not for a long convo... there is just something entirely different to be asked out on a date via a text & a personal phone call. The latter shows so many positive things about that guy; to anyone who disagrees, do a survey of your single girlfriends & at least 90% will agree.
Sunny, hi again :) I definitely don't advocate brushing ANYONE off - guy, girl or in between - I'm just saying that everyone should be mindful of their time. I've been out, thought I was completely hitting it off with someone (by the focused attention & positive feedback I was getting, I considered it to be mutual), spent a good part of the night talking to just them, they ask for my # ("we should hang out. i'd love to see you again." **insert other compliments**) only to never hear from that person again or get a "hey, wassup?" text a week later. so, 2010-SM, is likely to talk to a new guy/girl she meets for a shorter amount of time, say "hey, i have to run, but it was so great meeting you" (if i mean that) & I'LL say "we should try to meet up again some time." i will even be as bold to offer up my # & then will leave it in the guy's court to call. at least i know then that i did whatever i could, didn't lead anyone on, & feel a-okay with whatever transpires.
Now 1:33 PM, THANK YOU so much for your positive feedback. I really do appreciate everyone who comments no matter what they say, but in the midst of some of the unlove that came my way & continues to, it's just so nice to read sentiments like yours. Thanks again & so you know, you completely made my February 16th :-D
What is your take on, say, a girl asking a guy for his number?
ReplyDeleteI am actually a fan of exchanging numbers. For the longest time, I'd get someone's number, and when I called later in the week, she wouldn't answer because she didn't know who it was (one girl even later told me, she doesn't answer because she didn't remember who all she gave her number to that weekend).
There is nothing more frustrating than to call someone and say, "Hi, it's AD" and to hear back, "Who?" Exchanging numbers means my name shows up on her phone (and gives me the chance to leave some identifying information). It also is a signal from me - "Hey, i'm interested enough to leave you my number too, so you should feel free to call it." Granted, there are some women who are oblivious to that, but the one's that get it, get it because they possess that kind of insight that I love for a woman to have.
That being said, I've noticed a trend in a few articles in your blog - you accede to cultural stereotypes about how men and women should relate. Guys calling girls, guys paying for dates, guys should initiate contact on Shaadi.com, etc...
We do not live in Jane Austen's world anymore - most women, including Indian women, are more sexually liberated than ever, are capable of (and demand the right to) deciding what they want out of a relationship, have personal ambitions of education and success, etc. Yet despite demanding equality on so many fronts, they still expect courtship to be male-driven, without seriously considering if that's still a reasonable expectation.
I strongly believe that guys are genuinely excited by the prospect of more independent, driven, women (most guys want a girl who knows what she is doing in bed, for example). They see her go get her dream education and dream job, they see her carve her own niche in the American dream, and then, for some stupefying-ly opaque reason, sit around and wait for Mr. Right to show up.
Yes, what I'm saying is that despite being 'ultra-modern' (even with a family that would accept non-Indian spouses), perhaps you're not being pro-active enough? Kudos to your sibling for getting you a paid Shaadi.com account. As an economist, I would argue that monetary investment is a non-trivial indicator of "seriousness."
Get out there, give a guy your phone number, and get his number, call HIM. If he's mentally mature enough to handle a woman who knows what she wants and is willing to work to get it, he's not right for you anyway.
Best,
AD
If he's *NOT* mentally mature enough to handle a woman who knows what she wants and is willing to work to get it, he's not right for you anyway.
ReplyDeletehi AD, thanks for posting. so as you already know, i'm not a fan of a girl asking for a guy's #; i know vijay uncle disagrees with this & he encourages us to make the first move because something to the effect of "these guys just don't have the guts/brains/etc." regardless, at the end of the day, it's really difficult for me to be into a guy who doesn't have the guts to simply ask for my # after i've been talking to him or worse, once exchanging #'s (which i have no problem with), he is waiting for me to call. i personally have & always will interpret a guy taking a girl's # & then not calling it as "he's just not that into you." or my new personal favorite is meeting a guy, exchanging #s, & then him facebook friend requesting you.
ReplyDelete& you're right, we don't live in jane austen's world, but i believe that my personal preference isn't all about chivalry or being prim & proper. to me, i just consider my expectations to be the natural course of a guy being a GUY pursuing a girl & honestly, it's my only frame of reference due to my brother. he's 3 years older than me (he did not learn this from my dad, who is super sweet, but pretty clueless), & he is the biggest gentleman & all-around amazingly good guy. he treats ALL people well & whenever he pursued a girl, that's how his interest played out. i think a lot of what we all expect is based on what we saw/how we were treated growing up.
& i've said this before, but in the relationships that i'm personally a fan of (that i think have the best dynamic, are the most endearing & strongest), the guy is the one that initiated interest/did the chasing & even if they are married for 5-10 years out, you can tell he's just slightly more "into" the girl than she is. & although i respect your opinion, countless guys i know say that they want to do the chasing, b/c being chased by a girl is emasculating/ weirds them out.
but please don't get me wrong, i'm certainly not "waiting" for mr. right. i'll engage mr. who-i-think-could-be-right, & once he gets my #, for me personally, the ball is in his court. & once he initiates, i will definitely reciprocate.
lastly, i apologize if i'm taking the "ultra modern" comment as sarcastic, but my family being open to non-indians makes them just that: OPEN, & that does not take away from our traditional indian values.